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Niloc
Grip
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 15
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 Posted: 10.13.2004 9:39 pm Post subject: Politics |
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Lets do some politics yo. I would first like to say Bush is my idol, my favorite person is Ronal Reagan and I listen to Sean Hannity and Michael Savage more than I do to my parents.
Write on this topic. BUSH WILL WIN
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the night watchman
Studio Exec
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.
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| Posted: 10.14.2004 4:03 am Post subject: |
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I'm still torn between voting for Michael Badnarik, who I know cannot win, and working to remove the current administration by voting for Kerry, who stands a pretty good chance of winning. I resent the two-party system, and I resent being put in a situation of having to vote against a candidate, rather than for one; something I told myself I would never do
Part of me is trying to rationalize Penn Gillette's observation that "you can't throw away a vote you don't cast."
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"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."
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Last edited by the night watchman on 10.14.2004 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Monkeypox
Cinematographer
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 156
Location: TX
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| Posted: 10.14.2004 5:33 am Post subject: |
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I will be voting for Badnarik. The problem with the no vote for a presidential race is that it keeps you from doing the local voting, wherein you have a much greater chance of influence. People seem to forget the local stuff, because it doesn't interrupt "Scrubs" or "The Sopranos" or "Law and Order: Necrophiliac Muppet Capers."
I've never been able to understand the idea that you shouldn't vote for a candidate you don't believe will win. If we sit around waiting for a 3rd or 4th or 8th party candidate to become possible, then it'll never happen, which is why, despite my hatred for the Naderites, I have respect for the votes themselves (though now these people are being blamed/credited with the Gore loss, and expressing regret at those votes, which I find abhorent). I don't understand how one can have regrets if they're voting on principle, which is really all we have to go on.
Just voting for the guy you think will win because that's who everyone's gonna vote for is a little too junior high school for me.
I'm not sure if that makes any sense, but I've had about 6 too many whiskey sours.
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 10.14.2004 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeypox wrote: | | I've never been able to understand the idea that you shouldn't vote for a candidate you don't believe will win. If we sit around waiting for a 3rd or 4th or 8th party candidate to become possible, then it'll never happen |
Precisely. A vote for Nader or Badnarik is a wasted vote only if you believe this election is only about the next four years. A vote that may help kickstart a movement to break the two-party system is a vote concerned with the next 40 or 400 years. I may not agree with much of Nader's platform, but what he ultimately represents--the toppling of a two-party system designed to keep the same two parties in power, with the media as their willing accomplices--speaks to me far more deeply than either Bush or Kerry, who are two sides of the same coin.
And how dare the Democrats scold certain Americans for voting for the man they feel best represents their ideas--as if Kerry is entitled to votes belonging to Nader? If the Democratic Party wants those votes, they should field a candidate that actually speaks to those voters. To suggest that Americans ought to have their options limited to only those offered by the two major parties and the media is the antithesis of democracy.
I'm still steamed about how the media performed a hatchet job on Howard Dean, effectively deciding for us that he shouldn't be a candidate for president. Did Americans choose Kerry as their candidate, or was he appointed by the party and the news outlets while they ran a sham "primary season"?
Eric
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the night watchman
Studio Exec
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.
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| Posted: 10.14.2004 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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If I truly believed the Kerry and Bush were two sides of the same coin I wouldn't be so conflicted about how to vote. I made the mistake of assuming there was no difference between Gore and Bush in '00, and now look where we are.
My objective has always been to make my vote count. The Libertarian vote has accomplished that goal until now. But I'm convinced another Bush term would be deeply detrimental to the US, so I suppose waiting for the fall of the two-party in 44-404 years instead of 40-400 years doesn't seem so bad to at this point.
Anyway, after it's all said and done, I'd rather be watching "Law and Order: NMC."
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"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."
-David Cronenberg |
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 10.14.2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | If I truly believed the Kerry and Bush were two sides of the same coin I wouldn't be so conflicted about how to vote. I made the mistake of assuming there was no difference between Gore and Bush in '00, and now look where we are. |
Clearly there's a large difference between Bush and Kerry, but ultimately each are the appointees of two parties that have the same goal: perpetuating a corrupt system that sustains their own power. Both parties are ultimately concerned with preserving that system rather than advocating a true social agenda, which makes them, to my mind, two distinct sides of the same coin.
| the night watchman wrote: | | I suppose waiting for the fall of the two-party in 44-404 years instead of 40-400 years doesn't seem so bad to at this point. |
I tend to agree with that logic, except that it seems overly optimistic--it assumes that Bush is an aberration. We must bear in mind that Bush, as a manufactured product of the two-party system, is no aberration but a symptom of the system's corruption. It seems reasonable to assume the system will continue to manufacture similar products long after Bush has been booted. In other words, the "wait another 4 years" rationalization strikes me as the kind of rationalization that, to some degree, can be made every 4 years. Plus, commitment to change is most needed in times of crisis; revolution isn't necessary when things are safe. Nevertheless, I too have dusted off my scale to properly weigh the various risks of a second Bush term.
| the night watchman wrote: | | Anyway, after it's all said and done, I'd rather be watching "Law and Order: NMC." |
 Yeah, I confess I spent much of last night's debate flipping over to the Red Sox. Besides, contemporary debates aren't really about political discourse; they are programmed "events" that are only marginally more informative and revealing than your average campaign ad or news sound bite.
Eric
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"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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Niloc
Grip
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: 10.14.2004 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, Bush will win.
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Lord, please help me be the person my dog thinks I am |
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the night watchman
Studio Exec
Joined: 27 Jun 2003
Posts: 1373
Location: Dark, run-down shack by the graveyard.
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| Posted: 10.15.2004 1:19 am Post subject: |
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The Bush administration isn't so much an aberration as it is the pinnacle of the worst the system has yet offered. It is actively bad, as opposed to just being generally bad. It's festering as opposed to just stagnating in corruption. Apart from the Iraq War, I'm recalling the ban on stem cell research, ban on states legalizing assisted suicide, the attempt at a federal ban on same-sex marriage, ceasing federal funding to international organizations that provide abortions while giving federal funds to religious groups, and ignoring and burying the findings of real science favor of junk science that supports corporations. Bush keeps using the word "freedom," but I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
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"If you're talking about censorship, and what things should be shown and what things shouldn't be shown, I've said that as an artist you have no social responsibility whatsoever."
-David Cronenberg |
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Danny Baldwin
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 1354
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: 10.15.2004 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | Apart from the Iraq War, I'm recalling the ban on stem cell research, ban on states legalizing assisted suicide, the attempt at a federal ban on same-sex marriage, ceasing federal funding to international organizations that provide abortions while giving federal funds to religious groups, and ignoring and burying the findings of real science favor of junk science that supports corporations. Bush keeps using the word "freedom," but I don't think it means what he thinks it means. |
You just stated all of the things I admire about them.  
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Danny Baldwin
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beltmann
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 2341
Location: West Bend, WI
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| Posted: 10.15.2004 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| the night watchman wrote: | | Apart from the Iraq War, I'm recalling the ban on stem cell research, ban on states legalizing assisted suicide, the attempt at a federal ban on same-sex marriage, ceasing federal funding to international organizations that provide abortions while giving federal funds to religious groups, and ignoring and burying the findings of real science favor of junk science that supports corporations.. |
Well, there's something to be said for consistency.
Eric
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"When I was in Barcelona they showed pornography on regular television. I'm assuming it's the same way in Mexico since they also speak Spanish." - IMDb user comment |
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Niloc
Grip
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 15
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| Posted: 10.15.2004 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm recalling the ban on stem cell research, ban on states legalizing assisted suicide, the attempt at a federal ban on same-sex marriage, ceasing federal funding to international organizations that provide abortions while giving federal funds to religious groups, and ignoring and burying the findings of real science favor of junk science that supports corporations.
Are you a barbarian or a liberal???
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Lord, please help me be the person my dog thinks I am |
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GimmickAccount
Camera Operator
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 87
Location: IW, dneB tseW
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| Posted: 10.18.2004 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| Niloc wrote: | I'm recalling the ban on stem cell research, ban on states legalizing assisted suicide, the attempt at a federal ban on same-sex marriage, ceasing federal funding to international organizations that provide abortions while giving federal funds to religious groups, and ignoring and burying the findings of real science favor of junk science that supports corporations.
Are you a barbarian or a liberal??? |
Barbaric like not using the quote feature?
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| beltmann wrote: | | I suppose. Teenagers clearly suck. |
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matt header
Studio Exec
Joined: 26 Jun 2003
Posts: 623
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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| Posted: 10.18.2004 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Barbaric like not using the quote feature? |
Now that's funny.
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"I don't like talking to people I know, but strangers I have no problem with." -- Larry David, "Curb Your Enthusiasm" |
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